Monday 9th January Senate Estimates Questions to RRAT
Senator David Pocock 0:02
Can I ask about the status of the $10 million in the 2024-25 budget for the development of the Bruce precinct master plan. And has this plan been provided to…
Ms Kim Forbes, First Assistant Secretary, Territories Division, Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications, Sport and the Arts 0:27
Senator the plan is underway, so we have contracted with a firm to undertake that master plan. They're going through that process as well as a consultation process, and we expect that that should be delivered around May this year.
Senator David Pocock 0:40
May this year. Can you say who the firm was? Or…
Ms Kim Forbes 0:43
Yes, I can say who the firm was. It's Stantec.
Senator David Pocock 0:49
And can you talk me through the process, once you have a report like that, is the expectation that will then inform a government decision on funding, or what's the what's the next step?
Ms Kim Forbes 0:58
So the plan is to put that plan together with existing planning that's been undertaken by the ACT government around the hospital site as well as the CIT site, and together with the AIS master planning that they are doing themselves. Pull all that together and then provide advice to government, both ACT government and the Commonwealth Government, in terms of what the next steps might be, and what funding options might come in front of them, to consider what the next next stage is. But right now, we only have funding for the planning stage.
Senator David Pocock 1:29
Has the department worked on many hospital-stadium precinct plans before? Is this fairly novel?
Ms Kim Forbes 1:37
This would be fairly novel for the department, and the reason that we've got responsibility for this, rather than the ACT government, is just because of the National Capital land that exists within that precinct. We've also working, for example, closely with the Tasmanian Government over the Macquarie point precinct, which includes a stadium. But this is a little unique just because of the Commonwealth land that's on that site.
Senator David Pocock 2:01
And as part of this study, there's no sort of looking at other locations. It's just looking at what could be done on this specific site? That's my understanding.
Ms Kim Forbes 2:13
The master plan is looking at this specific site. That's not to say that the consultants might not look at other sites for examples of how you might best utilise that mix of commercial, sort of sporting and other purposes for the land, just as examples.
Senator David Pocock 2:30
Thank you. Moving on to the National Capital Investment Framework and having a chance to review the Federation Funding Agreement for the NCIF, I had a few questions relating to that. According to the performance requirements, the business case for the Aquatic Centre is expected to take a few months, and the Commonwealth is expecting to review it before June this year. But for the Convention Centre, can I just confirm that? But for the Convention Centre, the planning and business case is expected to take two years, and the due date for that submission is February 2028, and there's actually no dates attached to the development of a fully costed design proposal, or the development of an agreement? I’m interested why that disparity?
Ms Kim Forbes 3:25
So the Aquatic, the difference in the FFA was the Aquatic Centre was funded for construction and design, whereas the entertainment precinct was just the design process. So there is much tighter timeframes around the Aquatic Centre. I believe the final design, which should be a shovel ready project for the Convention precinct, is due to us by 2029. Is that right?
Ms Kylie Donovan 3:57
That is to be confirmed. So we had the project business case submission, which is milestone five, which is due on the 28th of February. As you said, sorry. Kylie Donovan, Assistant Secretary, the fully costed design proposal is not yet determined.
Senator David Pocock 4:12
And how much is the business case for the Convention Centre going to cost?
Ms Kim Forbes 4:19
We haven't broken down it into its individual components. We just know that we have committed $31.1 million towards the design and development of the new Canberra convention and entertainment precinct. But how we break that funding down will depend on that initial design that comes through.
Senator David Pocock 4:39
Is that a lot? That seems like a lot of money for the design of a Convention Centre.
Ms Kim Forbes 4:44
Yes, it is a lot of money. It's comparable to other large - it's not just one Convention Centre. It's quite a large precinct. There's also sort of repurposing of land, there's the removal of the pool, and thinking about how that whole precinct works together. So it's quite a complex program, and it is expected to take them to a shovel ready point, rather than just a high level design.
Senator David Pocock 5:07
But from the Department's perspective, it's two years to develop this plan, and then after that…
Ms Kim Forbes 5:12
After that, the ACT government would need to request further for any actual construction that took place.
Senator David Pocock 5:19
Do you have any idea on when you think it would be shovel ready?
Ms Kim Forbes 5:23
I don't expect that to happen, based on our discussions with the ACT government, until around that 2029, 2030 type of timeframe.
Senator David Pocock 5:32
- Gee, that's slow. Okay. Just to go back to the pool. There's quite a lot of concern from the Canberra community about the lack of diving facilities, given what we're hearing from the ACT government. And everyone I speak to is wanting a like-for-like, sort of replacement of Civic Pool. And I'm wondering if the ACT government discussed the option for a dive tower and dive pool at the Canberra Aquatic Centre.
Ms Kim Forbes 6:13
That has not been put forward as one of the things, the like-for-like requirements that we put in were more around ensuring that there was a 50 metre pool rather than a smaller pool, to make sure it was a competition-level facility. But there's not been discussions around the dives. Dives. Maybe it's a space restriction. I know that there's also going to be an outdoor splash park as well, but no, we have not discussed with them
Senator Chisholm 6:43
My understanding is that the ACT government have said they'd look at whether those facilities would be available at the new pool at Woden as well, entire facilities.
Senator David Pocock 6:49
They said it about Stromlo. They said it about Civic. They'll kick it down the road. So I'm really keen to hear what the Commonwealth is doing. So when, when people heard like-for- like, did you clarify that that was just like-for-like 50 metre, or was it…
Ms Kim Forbes 7:08
…At the time that we negotiated the FFA, the dive requirements were not sort of being discussed. It was more the size of the pool and the capability of the aquatic centre from a pool point of view, I think the dive has come up as a more recent issue, and that has not yet, as Senator said it would be a matter for ACT government to consider what they can fit into the budget that's been provided.
Senator David Pocock 7:37
Has the department had any requests, or just off your own initiative, looked at whether a dive tower could fit within the rules of the National Capital Plan?
Ms Kim Forbes 7:48
We have not looked at that. And that would be something that perhaps could be raised with the National Capital Authority when they're at the table.
Senator David Pocock 7:55
At 10.40 tonight, I'll be here. Did the department consider the additional costs for delivering a deeper pool? Given, if this goes ahead, there will be, there will be no dive facilities in the ACT?
Ms Kim Forbes 8:12
We did not consider the cost of that that would be a matter for ACT government to fit into their design and their budget.
Senator David Pocock 8:19
Given how much the Commonwealth is giving, and what I've seen jurisdictions like South Australia do in Adelaide for a pretty similar budget, do you think it's feasible to actually build that within the envelope of funding?
Ms Kim Forbes 8:36
Again, we couldn't really answer that until we see some of the designs back and the tenders once that the construction tender happens.
Senator David Pocock 8:45
And so just so I’m clear, no one at any point discussed diving facilities at a pool in Commonwealth Park through this whole process of relocating Civic pool, our only sort of diving facility?
Ms Kim Forbes 8:58
I have not discussed it, whether it's happened at officer level, or certainly, I expect it would have happened within the ACT Government.
Senator David Pocock 9:06
But they never raised this with you?
Ms Kim Forbes 9:09
I sit on a senior officials group meeting with the ACT government, and it's not been discussed.
Senator David Pocock 9:14
And so what's, if the ACT government all of a sudden decided, okay, we do want a dive facility there. Could they come back to the Commonwealth and say, we think it'll cost an additional $5, $10 million, or whatever it might be.
Ms Kim Forbes 9:29
They could come back, but at the moment our contribution is capped and we it's on a 50/50, basis.
Senator David Pocock 9:36
And the completion date for the pool, you said, was 2029, 2028?
Ms Kim Forbes 9:41
Completion date of the pool I don’t know if I have that exact date with me? I'd have to take that on notice unless you’ve got it there?
Ms Kylie Donovan 9:51
Practical completion will be the 30/3/2029 and post-completion phase will be the 30/4/2029.
Senator David Pocock 10:01
What does that? Sorry, when does it open like, when can the public use it? What does that mean?
Ms Kim Forbes 10:09
So practical completion means confirmation that a practical completion certificate has been awarded and that we have provided the project progress report detailing project planning and…
Senator David Pocock 10:20
…departmental sort of milestone, yeah, okay, great. Thank you.
Mr Michael Gregory, Assistant Secretary, enabling Services Branch 10:23
Our construction work is done, and then you've got the operational hand over for testing and all that kind of stuff.
Senator David Pocock 10:31
Great. Thank you.