Interview with Ross Solly about the Federal Government's Combatting Antisemitism, Hate and Extremism Bill 2026.
ROSS SOLLY: Senator Pocock, good morning to you and Happy New Year to you.
SENATOR DAVID POCOCK: Good morning, Ross, Happy New Year to you.
ROSS SOLLY: So what are your thoughts? You've had a couple of days to have a look at it. Do the laws stack up?
SENATOR DAVID POCOCK: Well, I think they need some serious work. I guess the starting point is just what a devastating tragedy the Bondi terror attack was that targeted the Jewish community, and obviously for those directly impacted and the Jewish community across the country, but also for all Australians. I think things have changed, and at a high level, people want to see action in response to the Bondi terror attack, we need to put things in place to ensure that this never happens again. Now the government has released their proposed changes, I'm getting a lot of feedback on this bill, and I really want to acknowledge and emphasise that there is a diversity of views across the community in Canberra. People want action, but they're also saying it needs to be timely and not so fast that we get things wrong. And I think there's a very real question around process and how the parliament actually works through these really contentious measures.
ROSS SOLLY: Katy Gallagher was on the show yesterday, and I put it to her, why? Why the rush? Why do we need to put this through in two days? She said that there needs to be a response. The community has demanded a response. The Libs etc said, You've got to get out there and do something. So they're delivering. I mean, can you do legislation as important as this within two days David Pocock?
SENATOR DAVID POCOCK: I don't think so. I've been calling for parliament to come back early to actually start this process, because I think making good laws, particularly when you're touching on things that go to freedom of expression in a country that doesn't have an overarching Human Rights Act, you need to tread carefully. And so I think my sense is people want parliamentarians to actually work constructively together, and that they're worried that we actually get these changes right. And how do you balance that urgency with getting the details right. You know, I think a few weeks of scrutiny would ensure that the Parliament could actually work together and pass laws that do strengthen protections, not just for one group, but potentially for a whole range of groups, and at the same time, ensure that we are very mindful of freedom of expression. So I think, you know, there's, there's some concerns about both the substance of the bill and the process for considering it.
ROSS SOLLY: What are your main concerns? There seems to be a school of thought that the freedom of speech clamp down is too strong, that that is a major problem that people need to be focused on. There's also talk about the gun buyback scheme being a bit unfair for people who are law abiding gun owners. What are your main areas of concern, David Pocock, with the laws as they are at the moment?
SENATOR DAVID POCOCK: The two big areas, Ross, that I've been looking at with with my team and hearing from Canberrans about is, as you said, the need to balance freedom of expression, given that we don't have a Human Rights Act in Australia that enshrines things like freedom of expression, so we need to tread carefully there and get the get the balance right. The other big concern that I'm hearing a lot about is that this bill creates new additional protections based on race, color, nationality and ethnicity, but not on the basis of religion or other protected attributes. And I think there's a really strong argument that added protections against hate, if the parliament is going to do that, should also apply equally, fairly and consistently to all, including to Jewish Australians, Muslim Australians, First Nations Peoples, people with a disability, the LGBTI+ communities and others who experience the harms of hate and discrimination. So, you know, I think those are the two big ones. When it comes to the the firearms provisions of this, I think there's some really important things in there, actually giving ASIO, intelligence services more powers to do background checks, to work with, firearm registries in the states and territories, and then to set up the essentially the scaffolding for a buyback scheme should the states and territories impose conditions on ownership that require buybacks.
ROSS SOLLY: So what is your strategy going to be going into next week then David Pocock? A few people on the text line this morning have suggested that the Senate might refer this off to a review committee, which will delay its introduction by several months. I mean, is that the logical next step, or would you prefer to see the government go back to the drawing board, come up with a more workable bill and then set aside a decent amount of time to try and debate this?
SENATOR DAVID POCOCK: My approach as a representative of the ACT is to really engage on this, speak to experts, speak to stakeholders, speak to Canberrans about it. As I said, I've outlined some of the concerns raised. I do think there needs to be amendments, and there needs to be more scrutiny. Ideally, you'd have a parliament that is actually willing to engage in good faith. Look at this bill and say, Okay, some of these provisions, like more background checks on firearm users, I don't think anyone's opposed to that. Let's get them through, and let's refer the rest off to a committee we can deal with this in February or March. I'd hope that that is what could happen. As you said, from some of the posturing in the media, that sounds unlikely, but I'm certainly committed to engaging in good faith. I've got a whole bunch of roundtables on Monday this week. We got the legislation late, but has allowed my team and I to get through some of the detail and allow stakeholders - there's been a bunch of ACT organisations - who've made really important submissions to the very short committee process. And I think disappointingly, it was sent to a Joint Standing Committee that has no crossbenchers on it. And so, you know, a third of Australians don't vote for the major parties, and that there's been no representative from them who's actually able to ask questions and scrutinise it.
ROSS SOLLY: So were you given, were you given a copy of the legislation, though early on, David Pocock, or were you, were you excluded from that as well?
SENATOR DAVID POCOCK: No, my team pulled it down from the website when it was uploaded. We saw it at the same time as everyone else, which I guess is a bit of an insight into the parliament and how things operate at times. But we've been getting across it, engaging and as I said, I think there's, there's a bunch of Canberrans who have very strongly held views on this. And it's really important that that, yes, we act. Every Australian should feel safe. It is totally unacceptable that the Jewish community has to have 24/7 security at places of worship, at schools. We need to act, but we actually need to act in a way that's going to deal with this and not just be a sort of window dressing on a problem.
ROSS SOLLY: Some of the feedback you were getting. Was there a suggestion from some in the community, and I heard this yesterday from Jewish leaders just saying, look, for the sake of social cohesion, for the sake of at least getting this discussion underway, political parties need to come together. It's not perfect. The laws aren't perfect, but we need to get them in. I mean, it does seem to be a feeling from some in the community, ‘Let's get this done in the two days next week and get it up and running. So we've got a starting point.’
SENATOR DAVID POCOCK: There absolutely are some in the community who have that view. Ross, I've been listening to them, and as I said, I think there are a number of provisions in this bill which are largely uncontroversial and I think long overdue, and the Parliament could deal with them next week. That would take some negotiation, and the government actually being willing to split off parts of the bill, send some parts which are more contentious to a Senate committee process of a few weeks. We could deal with them in February or March sittings, which I think is still a good timeframe.
ROSS SOLLY: It will be interesting indeed next week, Monday and Tuesday. Senator David Pocock, appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.
SENATOR DAVID POCOCK: Thank you very much. Ross, cheers.